00:00:15: Welcome to this podcast.

00:00:17: My name is Katharina Dohm, I'm the curator of the exhibition that tunnels we dig by Bárbara Wagner and Benjamin de Burca at the Schirn.

00:00:26: Through their video works, the artist duo delves deeply into various music scenes to artistically capture their specific cultural context and forms of expression.

00:00:37: In doing so they engage in an intensive collaborative exchange with the respective artists & communities.

00:00:45: At the Schirn, the duo is presenting three works including the new production Future of Yesterday which is dedicated to straight-edge hardcore punk.

00:00:55: I spoke with Bárbara and Benjamin about their artistic work during an artist's talk.

00:00:59: Enjoy listening!

00:01:11: So we are very happy that we had a possibility to work directly with Bárbara & Benji, and we started two years ago

00:01:19: in 2024. Sebastian came from New York and said, ah what do you think about Bárbara Wagner Benjamin de Burca?

00:01:27: I say oh wow.

00:01:28: I've seen the work like he also did in Venice two thousand nineteen at The Brazilian Pavilion and i loved it.

00:01:37: Should we should be trying to get in contact with them?

00:01:39: so yeah sure We Do It.

00:01:41: So this was the beginning of the exhibition You are now hopefully happy To See In Halle Zwei.

00:01:48: And they started saying, yes we would be interested in working with you.

00:01:53: We are already having a subject of mind and it's called straight

00:01:56: edge.

00:01:57: This was the moment immediately Sebastian said, haha!

00:02:02: And in this video call I was like, straight edge... what is this?

00:02:06: They were already talking about the "X" on their hands.

00:02:09: And all those details we will explain later on how or they explained them.

00:02:13: And then ever since We were already at a crazy journey. At that time also we knew that we are going to change place from Schirn-Römer to Schirn Bockenheim.

00:02:27: But I can also tell you here it makes the surrounding and building, the initiatives working here all works very well together to have especially their work here but would have exhibited you in Schirn Römer.

00:02:44: so

00:02:45: It's not only because of this building.

00:02:47: So we started going into deep research and now I give it back to you.

00:02:55: We opened up yesterday, how do you feel today after this more or less two years of crazy journey?

00:03:03: First off all thank - you for having us here with a conversation after the presentation of our work. We like this situation talking to the people a lot.

00:03:17: I was asking Katarina, Sebastian just now:

00:03:19: I mean, what's the format of this conversation?

00:03:21: Do we have some time to talk with the public?

00:03:24: If you do it will be very nice if you ask questions... if you've seen the works in exhibition and are interested in anything else…

00:03:35: But first let us start!

00:03:36: Because

00:03:37: I have also many questions.

00:03:39: Oh, my God!

00:03:42: We talked about some...

00:03:45: Thank you for having this moment and yesterday was very special because we had the presence of artists that

00:03:52: are

00:03:54: in a film commissioned by Schirn, made with the team of Schirn.

00:04:00: so it's really when they talk about their journey the intense work we did in the last two years, you have to say how Schirn participated in her work.

00:04:11: So that team joined and this is a very rare situation

00:04:17: I think we also had to say because some of those listeners know possibly not much about your work and what you said from beginning are artists.

00:04:27: So the videos you're going see on the other space are three as Sebastian already mentioned, and I think what also really impressed me very much in Venice was the dynamics in this video.

00:04:44: but to see that focus later on.

00:04:48: On groups dancing acting in front of a camera then getting to know participation is one it's the most important way of working together with the other side and they don't say They are actors or their musicians.

00:05:08: They are artists, and I think this is a very important point to make clear from the beginning on and this was also something that really... Yeah impressed me so much that it was always to say the people we work together they consider as artists.

00:05:24: So This is something one can I think makes a lot about the tension, we maybe later also speak again about on one hand documentation but it is not documentation.

00:05:38: So to come back again with participation how you work... How does this...?

00:05:44: You made an effort in Brazilian Brega, you did your work at Spoken Art in Toronto.

00:05:54: How do you find your ideas?

00:05:56: I mean we asked you and it was sure:

00:05:58: We were working in Germany.

00:06:00: You

00:06:01: had been in contact with German straight-edge scene, but how does it... I mean for some other exhibitions:

00:06:06: how Do you find Your Other side, the artist you are laying your focus

00:06:11: on?

00:06:14: It depends of course, no.

00:06:15: And also In certain circumstances there is a dynamic of it being kind of inseparable from a social political moment in time or where we see things are going and the dynamics, political dynamics at that place.

00:06:39: We were actually discussing yesterday

00:06:41: like Straight Edge is also very existent in Brazil.

00:06:44: There's an old straight edge festival in Sao Paulo.

00:06:48: I went to.

00:06:48: It was interesting but almost finished when started again because there's dynamic, there is a desire for it again.

00:07:00: And I was super impressed.

00:07:03: This was after Barbara had initially became super interested in straight edge from when she was in Berlin in 2022 I think going to concerts with a great friend of hers.

00:07:14: And finding yourself feeling extremely, extremely comfortable an extremely included.

00:07:21: but you can talk about that bit more.

00:07:24: My experience going to Verdurada, which is like a... how would you call it?

00:07:29: It's kind of vegetables or something along those lines.

00:07:33: Its greenery has translated and I was super impressed because we had two bands playing.

00:07:41: then the curator of that festival came out and said: ok now were gonna sit down have conversation about dictatorship. And the whole place that was full, they basically just sat down on the ground in middle of a concert and listened to for an hour-and-a half about this woman's book she brought out on

00:08:02: the experience... the disappearance of her father and everything else.

00:08:07: Then okay right then the concert was back on.

00:08:10: And the dynamic of ages

00:08:12: was amazing.

00:08:12: There,

00:08:13: one thing I noticed most of all like their were kids adults and there were people over in the corner skating.

00:08:20: And there was veggie burgers to be had, but no alcohol obviously?

00:08:24: I mean nobody had any interest whatsoever... ...in that dynamic at this festival, a one-day festival.

00:08:34: It's just like wow!

00:08:37: I'd never been to a concert before where it's like when one minute all are like aaahhhhhh and everyone is moshing and then next minute they're all sitting on the ground listening to this woman talking, you know? And with such deep concentration and interest, I was like this is super new for me.

00:08:53: What an amazing dynamic.

00:08:55: but back to your point, I think straight edge and hardcore are kind of resurging you know?

00:09:00: Maybe it's a post-pandemic question or maybe a desire to move away from mediated image or sound in relation to certain amount of autonomy and a certain amount analogous processes so like tape cassettes, and the certain amount nostalgia is returning.

00:09:23: So I mean... The t-shirts you showed today...

00:09:31: Sebastian showed at opening his old t-shirt from the nineties from bands that were quite famous at their time

00:09:42: And they're aesthetic.

00:09:42: There's still this reference between the generations and...

00:09:46: Yeah, I think the aesthetic of todays bands is still playing along those lines.

00:09:52: It has a graphic nature to it!

00:09:56: There was a merch yesterday.

00:09:58: Of course i had buy one from The Band, The band with most performing also in their video Yesterday night here.

00:10:06: This is why we gave everything.

00:10:11: And yeah, we also found that as well when we went to the Cologne Fest, when we were here.

00:10:17: I think something very... Well i'm older than Sebastian but still this period of straight edge just went by myself or you say pass-by?

00:10:30: I didn't notice until in the end when I got more and more into the research then found out ah maybe he was straight edge because later on I could decipher those codes, what he was wearing and then there were some other bands that connected to the straight edge scene.

00:10:45: But I also find very striking when we started working together in this scene - no alcohol or meat, vegan, vegetarian life... This is all kind of mainstream today but it was the exclusive right to be straight edge at that time.

00:11:03: so how did this change?

00:11:05: There was also some questions we had.

00:11:08: And then I also understood Bárbara's point so well, to be feeling accepted in this group of people because we went to Darmstadt, Oetinger Villa and there are all the different generations... All different backgrounds being together enjoying the night, enjoying music.

00:11:28: That is very new for me.

00:11:32: Thank you.

00:11:34: I think this is also something one has to point out, because I don't know if we all have seen the film, and how those different generations work together. I think this was something you were really interested in.

00:11:45:

00:11:47: At the same time, I'm thinking of answering your question about finding the artists or subjects in certain specific research.

00:12:03: And I'm thinking of sobriety as something that... I was really fascinated with when I started to understand what the concerts were going to be about.

00:12:19: Because, it didn't know,

00:12:20: I was just feeling in the experience a direct contact between band and audience.

00:12:32: Of course sound is... what you experience, but then the presence and attention of people with each other.

00:12:39: And I didn't understand immediately that had to do with... People who are not under the effect of any psychotropic.

00:12:52: It makes me think about our initial work on Carnival for example in the whole idea of forgetting reality.

00:13:03: how we connect popular parties, traditions and histories of oppression to music production or popular manifestations we were interested in at the beginning of our practice.

00:13:18: And I think that was really liberating for me, to understand... The idea of having fun being sober is something you can learn from and with kids.

00:13:37: I say kids but they are not that young.

00:13:38: I mean, in the film we worked with people who... In their whole process from twelve to eighteen to twenty-five but then they're parents got super involved.

00:13:48: so it's across generations.

00:13:50: But learning with the younger ones is for me an experience That was really new in this research.

00:14:01: How they respect

00:14:06: different forms of knowledge and how authority is also suspended somehow.

00:14:13: It's really interesting, I'm still processing the work now it just finished.

00:14:21: It just opened, so we're learning with the film.

00:14:24: This is also a good point to make.

00:14:27: The final cut was still done, I think

00:14:30: until you came here, there were always new versions of the... a new final version.

00:14:37: Adjustments too?

00:14:39: Because you were working just until the opening to finish the film. And when you now say we are now seeing and processing - this is also for me same that we did see the film like surely ten or twenty times.

00:14:55: But still

00:14:56: Now I see much more details in this first camera movement.

00:15:05: I don't know if you have seen it in the garage, and all those signifies... ...if we want to speak about art history that has all of these cars on super aesthetic surfaces And not only cars with bicycles but also music in the back.

00:15:20: The different generations, the group Getting prepared for the concert that is going to be followed.

00:15:27: So yeah, I can smell already The garage. One can.

00:15:34: it's a lot of atmosphere and also the...

00:15:38: Yeah, I mean we see at once Each time again.

00:15:42: I can see some more details in something.

00:15:45: which is there in the film

00:15:47: For sure for some reasons. But I just see it now.

00:15:50: so you're still also Like you, we are getting closer with the work and also getting more to understand how it all comes together.

00:15:59: Of course you have a script... maybe you could share how you started working with those very young protagonists but not very young.

00:16:09: Some were quite young like fifteen or something like seventeen up to twenty.

00:16:15: So

00:16:16: how was this going on when you came here?

00:16:20: Yeah, it was fun.

00:16:22: Slow at the beginning.

00:16:26: It was beautifully

00:16:27: slow like they would impose their time and that was really interesting.

00:16:33: of course we were... I think this

00:16:34: is also to do with autonomy because when we started getting in contact with the scene Cornelia here, she was our research assistant doing a lot of work, We already felt that it's not easy to convince them to be part of a video or an artwork and present, to be straight at.

00:16:59: And consume straight edge.

00:17:02: It was really like one had to prove you're interested and will not take anything.

00:17:09: There is this very interesting dynamic because we are talking about an underground culture respectively.

00:17:18: If this DIY in the sense that they do it for yourselves. It's not about becoming famous let's say, you know?

00:17:27: So

00:17:28: we were lucky enough and many respects because within the scene... In instances,

00:17:34: We met very open-minded people but they're all a bit like no that's not really for me.

00:17:38: Because... maybe was very difficult to... I'd like to kind of properly explain that we're not here to talk about the scene

00:17:56: of

00:17:56: Strait Edge.

00:17:56: We are not here for a documentation or to expose anybody, you know make them fragile and in respect.

00:18:08: so within that we were lucky to engage with many instances with Blinded and Nick and Odo, they're all very creative artists.

00:18:21: Again when we say artist in this instance not just music. It's like customising their cars because of the family interest, producing tapes, producing drawings, artworks, zines, merch.

00:18:37: yeah this is designed by Nick himself and

00:18:41: again you can see the car influence.

00:18:43: I always think You know, and that's maybe a little bit out of step

00:18:47: Maybe I would have been unusual in the straight edge hardcore scene because cars might not be necessarily connected but...

00:18:55: The ecology idea?

00:18:57: Yeah Ecology is important you know.

00:19:02: And again i think as well

00:19:04: this straight-edge aspect has sometimes misunderstood or misread it being only about My body.

00:19:11: I want to be fit or clean, you know January - Whatever we call it.

00:19:16: I'd forgotten this kind of dry January.

00:19:19: It's less about that and i think its more About not necessarily allowing yourself To Be involved in contamination culture, intoxication culture because it doesn't do any good, You Know, Not just necessary for you but For society as well.

00:19:38: so If it has a negative impact on you and then to bring that negative effect to other things, It's not cool.

00:19:45: So they see the world and alcohol And all these drugs creating so much problems.

00:19:52: Straight is about positive living, it's about positive thinking.

00:19:55: First of all for yourself When we met them They were like... It was very rare in fact.

00:20:02: These days I come across seventeen or twenty something year olds you know, that are so attentive and like listening going:

00:20:10: yeah this is really interesting but I see things differently from you.

00:20:14: And instead of kind of going sorry what did he say?

00:20:19: So...I mean i was always interested in that dynamic as well.

00:20:22: They have

00:20:22: a very clear idea and position on what they want to be Yeah Of their connection with society.

00:20:31: Now we said later on it's like yes sure It also has to do with the autonomy that gives them a lot of strength.

00:20:40: So if we like say, as Basti said... We're doing it for fun and not about becoming famous or rich.

00:20:49: Of course these are structures in music business in a capitalist world but they don't want to be part of this world.

00:21:03: I also, maybe you can say this is not important but I later on thought of course like Blinded or One, all those protagonists in the video

00:21:15: they were always very hesitant because They don't want to speak for the whole scene.

00:21:20: so it's also to be a group and To Be...

00:21:25: if One focus is put On This Band then there is a hierarchy

00:21:29: that Could Come Up.

00:21:30: maybe it has to do also with that, but they would just want be one scene and not speaking in... Yeah.

00:21:39: For sure?

00:21:40: I think this happens with all the works we make

00:21:46: …that are in conversation with artists who eventually really want work with us.

00:21:56: They decide there's people who aren't interested or don't.

00:22:01: But how do you think to get the trust?

00:22:03: Because it's about trust.

00:22:04: Yeah,

00:22:06: I think there is a specificity of working together. Like when...

00:22:12: we maybe a good example: I think we told Cornelia that We started to work in the region of Darmstadt because of the Oetinger villa because we knew it was super important but also following their recommendations of Pete Steinert who has this fantastic Zine online called volume magazine.

00:22:35: There's a lot of information that is going to be helpful for the research on straight edge in the region of Hessen through Volume Magazine, and so we are in Darmstadt and then Pete was presenting to us the possibilities in term sof music, distinguishing also the styles.

00:23:06: He himself made a documentary on that, amazing and it was through this documentary we learned about Blinded.

00:23:13: It's important to say that Blinded just got to become a band like they are together having different projects for many times or other projects in music but they hard core Straight Edge Band called Blinded

00:23:29: had

00:23:30: its first presentation last year in February. And I don't know exactly in which month they opened for Earth Crisis.

00:23:38: In their tour in June, right?

00:23:41: Just four

00:23:42: months later there was an opening act of one of the legendary straight edge bands

00:23:50: Earth crisis and in the Schlachthof Wiesbaden Which is much larger than Oetinger Villa in Darmstadt. But Villa Oetinger in Darmstadt

00:23:58: is very important.

00:24:01: Yeah, straight-edge persons say when they do a tour... ...they have Paris London Darmstadt.

00:24:12: But we had conversations with people who would not necessarily want to make an artwork together because they are busy and work or study.

00:24:26: They'd be interested but it's like not now.

00:24:32: Or Maybe I'm not the right person to talk about it.

00:24:37: Yeah, don't want to be so much to the fore and more behind-the-scenes. So what I think happened with

00:24:45: The people we worked with for

00:24:47: future of yesterday is that They really enjoy their idea of making a film together But they wanted to do it, it was in their desire

00:24:57: do it made the film and they participated in every aspect of it, like thinking about

00:25:05: which

00:25:06: songs how we would go from one to the other.

00:25:10: It's a very simple structure at the end...

00:25:13: Please tell us more about that because you also said The Songs is interesting for you here

00:25:19: there isn't classical dialogue.

00:25:22: I don't want to say that the other videos are classical dialogue forms, but being singing Brega songs or presenting spoken art poetry.

00:25:30: But here there's almost less dialogue... The dialogue that is there sounds like Alltagssprache

00:25:39: Like hey dude how're you?

00:25:41: Oh nice!

00:25:41: You have a tape.

00:25:44: So it was rather this atmosphere I had the impression.

00:25:48:

00:25:49: I think this is the first time in any of our films that we have loose dialogue, and let's say not scripted.

00:25:55: We don't script dialogue.

00:25:58: if there's dialogue it comes from mediation.

00:26:00: If its coming form radio or television Or an interview That isn't us taking it like by Deutschland for example.

00:26:09: everything that's in our films

00:26:13: thats true script comes from the lyrics of music.

00:26:19: It's always been the case, or for example maybe in Thee Hamot Santo there is some preaching.

00:26:32: I mean we didn't script it.

00:26:34: We're not asking anyone to say anything that isn't somehow natural to them.

00:26:37: so That was actually fun moment because The use of this or their camera is something that, again it's a little bit nostalgic for skate videos and things from the nineties.

00:26:50: And I mean Odo uses it a lot... we saw... I mean He opened up his archives with them doing exactly that you know putting instruments in the van and going to the concerts, then sometimes setting it up there at the side of the concert but filming in hardcore concerts usually not really welcomed by people who are there in the audience unless it's someone that is really in the scene, and they know there are people like Josi Hoffmann for example.

00:27:16: Famous photographer?

00:27:17: Yeah

00:27:17: fantastic photographer!

00:27:19: So yeah... There's a dynamic there which has to do with self-mediation so in a away.

00:27:28: In this instance we did have a cinematographer but They were all telling him how to film it and what he should film.

00:27:36: And yeah, you should try more zooming in because that's what we do You know.

00:27:40: so me and Bárbara which is kind of like

00:27:42: well It was a new experience for us as well and For the whole cinema team Because there are people standing around That Are hired To be There and they don't Know What to Do?

00:27:51: Because As A man with a camera We Don'T have a Monitor to Refer to what The Images Are Like.

00:27:57: We Can't Say This Is Good This Bad But the kids were kind of looking over this, and I shouldn't say that but got used to it.

00:28:04: It's just affection when they're like direct... Everyone has a word!

00:28:15: Pure chaos in very rhythmic way In ways we really enjoy because there is exactly that negotiation between people from the world of cinema That have step outside their usual roles.

00:28:31: you know, cinema is very hierarchical in that nature.

00:28:34: And next minute all of this power's put into the hands these young people who make music to say what they want and how they have done on me and Bárbara just mediating their relationship.

00:28:47: so our works are always a little bit around that line.

00:28:51: Mediation!

00:28:52: This something also I found interesting.

00:28:54: whole term idea because i think it comes up in all of your works.

00:29:02: In the moment you work with artists together, but from another world let's say... ...from another idea background and I think this is most of your work to mediate.. ..but also to have these moments coming together that different worlds come together.

00:29:20: So how was it?

00:29:22: There off course are straight edge,

00:29:23: World was different.

00:29:26: Yeah there were some beautiful aspects to it

00:29:30: Delightful like...

00:29:31: the cinematographer it's

00:29:32: the first time we worked with him as Damien Elliott and he comes from Belfast, but

00:29:37: He became quite famous from Game of Thrones.

00:29:41: Yeah

00:29:41: I mean they don't work with

00:29:43: famous

00:29:43: such only a cameraman.

00:29:45: They were with most not famous.

00:29:48: But I want to say really

00:29:49: He is very humble. saying in the world of art he'd be known for making some works for Jared Byrne, you know as a cinematographer?

00:29:56: But he works across-the-board.

00:29:58: so he'll be making adds here and feature length films there.

00:30:02: But he's very, very humble.

00:30:04: so when it comes to fame... He would be like... Because he is also from this.

00:30:09: He comes from punk and hardcore.

00:30:11: This was all the reason surely that he was interested in doing?

00:30:14: Yeah!

00:30:14: That how we got into film.

00:30:15: How he became who he is today you know.

00:30:18: And So When We Got The VX because Odo has his own but When We Get The Vx From Rental in a box and he opens it up, just like looking at this thing that He used to use so much when he was young.

00:30:32: You know what?

00:30:33: It's almost like a tear rolling down.

00:30:36: Yes its back to this now.

00:30:38: you known he was like..

00:30:39: he was really happy.

00:30:40: In the end.

00:30:41: for everybody who actually

00:30:43: yeah

00:30:43: connected to those let say I don't want to save videos but it's huge work crossing over generations And you can step back out of your role.

00:30:55: I mean, you're like the cameraman and can also maybe connect to another world again?

00:31:01: Maybe it's a past but maybe... It's future is the future of yesterday.

00:31:05: Maybe we didn't say that -

00:31:06: where does this title come from actually?

00:31:09: Future of yesterday is the real title for

00:31:12: our work.

00:31:13: It's the name of a song in the film.. Actually its THE FUTURE OF YESTERDAY.

00:31:19: But we kinda wanted refer to our understanding of time.

00:31:25: I think all our films do a little bit, but in this instance it's more about us reflecting back to the nineties for example. The parents also Reflecting Back To Americana, American Culture and how

00:31:42: In the Seventies you know This Kind Of Customizing Vans.

00:31:45: And So They Also.

00:31:47: By The Way The Parents Are Vaners.

00:31:51: they Do A Classic Car Organizations and they have a garage in which there rent spaces for other people's classic cars.

00:31:58: And have a whole bunch of friends all over Germany and beyond that That gather to you know, make competitions.

00:32:06: So the van, that man

00:32:08: polishing his van,

00:32:09: is known as putzi To his friends Which was great.

00:32:13: so he's polishing the van so it makes sense.

00:32:15: He knows exactly what he should be doing

00:32:17: in this scene

00:32:19: The mother is preparing the prints For the t-shirts

00:32:24: And

00:32:24: then in the moment when they go, she just gives a box to them.

00:32:29: Surely this I have seen not for first time or second but third.

00:32:35: and you understand in terms of DIY aesthetics and straight edge that parents supporting their children... When they were all here yesterday with the whole family They told me oh yes!

00:32:53: And you know, we spoke because they were still reflecting also on the moment.

00:32:59: why did our children became straight.

00:33:03: He said I think my grandfather he was an alcoholic so alcohol had a hole.

00:33:12: and then when we got children We didn't decide to drink no alcohol but friends of ours They did!

00:33:20: We drank alcohol?

00:33:22: And we had party and she's in the carnival.

00:33:25: The mother very strong but We never said that they know so-so They kept continued their lifestyle, and she said and we never opposed anything to them or we Never said you have to do this of that.

00:33:38: So the freedom is on the one hand there?

00:33:40: And I say well it's just they were Just part of it and being a Very supportive.

00:33:46: then he said when day because they are really all history cars old-timers.

00:33:52: And then he said, yeah well and they just go on a concert like in this video?

00:33:56: I know that goes to Stuttgart.

00:33:58: so of course i look if the oil is there or enough water for them get their hand I give the box with all t-shirts!

00:34:06: So it's... The whole film also very... When you notice its also very private and emotional.

00:34:17: Yeah, it's a very lovely strong relationship.

00:34:23: what you can

00:34:24: see

00:34:25: the more You get into the detail of this film.

00:34:27: So there is also another story laying underneath.

00:34:30: I

00:34:30: think yeah.

00:34:31: And then i like when It becomes clear in The film how the process happens because How could we do that without their collaboration?

00:34:40: That's Like When he showed whenever showing rise for the first time in brazil In two thousand eighteen and remember a whole conversation about collaboration that we had with some interesting people like Elio de Minesis, who was later curated by him in Sao Paulo too.

00:35:00: He came to talk and visited the show when we talked about it... And then he said I remember him saying

00:35:07: how….

00:35:08: Some people would be confused about whose scripts what?

00:35:11: In films they make We don't because this is something that's confusing.

00:35:18: When you work together, I mean in between the two of us.

00:35:21: It gets super confusing who initiated what?

00:35:24: because it's just that you share.

00:35:27: You go to a certain point and then you're afraid And then the other one takes it.

00:35:31: Then we got together somewhere.

00:35:32: you wouldn't go alone?

00:35:33: That really is part of it.

00:35:36: Do you feel these moments?

00:35:38: I mean, it needs to be comfortable... ...to deal with these moments.

00:35:41: And obviously sometimes not?

00:35:43: It's there!

00:35:44: It is normally uncomfortable.

00:35:46: Never comfortable

00:35:50: at all!

00:35:51: I didn't want to use this word but now the... It

00:35:53: was fun

00:35:54: and never-comfortable.

00:35:57: Uncomfortable discussions about authorship and who

00:36:00: decides.

00:36:02: This is a conversation in the arts of course.

00:36:05: If you are working semi ethnographic world, and then I come from journalism.

00:36:12: And this is a beautiful problem!

00:36:17: Actually i also have to say that... ...I'm really happy with the presence of Wendell Invan Oldenburg in the audience someone who's my family now can see but my master many ways.

00:36:37: I learned so much in how it could be an artist coming from the field of journalism.

00:36:44: There was one your question, about documentation and how can you go into art world?

00:36:50: Yes very much... It's working assisting Vane and learning her researches begins her interests and how that can be a conversation in the art world was what opened up my mind to experiment.

00:37:11: And, uh... What I want to say about collaboration an uncomfortable thing is it's very intimate with you see there on screen as part of their life that is in front of the camera.

00:37:32: But, of course, that can only happen if there was more than a... it's not allowance or awareness how do you say?

00:37:45: It's almost legal term when we talk about taking an image from someone.

00:37:50: Copyrights.

00:37:52: Consent!

00:37:54: That's it because I think some discussions are about consent Outer eyes, I mean how did they accept?

00:38:02: Do they know... Are they aware that this work is going to be shown here or there.

00:38:08: And it's…I think we embrace these as almost the thing that a work about.

00:38:18: So for artists who worked with Future of Yesterday They knew from beginning about exhibition at Chien.

00:38:26: It was not like from Brazil, in Darmstadt.

00:38:33: And looking for it now?

00:38:35: Also that its just beginning with Schoen as well.

00:38:38: there's going to be other moments and other dynamics we can discuss when where also cinema festivals what is means?

00:38:46: so they're aware.

00:38:47: I mean of course you know... We don't know.

00:38:51: nobody really tells me or what the meaning goes.

00:38:56: It often conflicting because Sometimes, when we show a work made in Brazil... ...in the European context or United States.

00:39:06: People read it differently and sometimes very hard to mediate.

00:39:09: that you know?

00:39:11: It's again another question of mediation!

00:39:16: In

00:39:16: transformation

00:39:17: as well with also cultural contexts.

00:39:20: But it's not really in the end for me to be able say, no you shouldn't think of like that.

00:39:26: That way again works need kind left open because everyone has come from some form context or conditioned thinking with their own experiences and life.

00:39:38: so I can't mediate that.

00:39:42: my favourite audience is the accidental ones.

00:39:45: What's that place over there?

00:39:46: And then they go in and come out, thinking about it for hours later.

00:39:51: That is great!

00:39:53: I think also... You start with a transformation between you two.

00:40:00: Then its getting more when you invite the other artists to participate The cinematographic view.

00:40:08: on the whole From beginning your works are always very open because there are so many systems being connected and also via the film or video, I think also mediated in the end.

00:40:28: So when you go over to see space... ...I can immediately say yes sure!

00:40:36: And of course as we said people have a totally different reception openness towards what they're seeing as when you are in this white cube.

00:40:47: It was so funny, we had interviews shortly before the opening and I was talking about The White Cube.

00:40:53: And then the interviewer...the journalist said What is a white cube?

00:40:57: I'm like

00:40:58: WHAT?!

00:40:59: You don't know what is a WHITE

00:41:00: CUBE??

00:41:01: And he's like Oh yeah!

00:41:02: I am so into my system.

00:41:03: So explain A WHITE CUBE!

00:41:06: Perfect situation for contemporary art.

00:41:10: and then you're just like, oh yeah.

00:41:11: Okay let's think about this again.

00:41:13: what is the perfect system or the perfect space of contemporary art?

00:41:16: The white cube And we don't have a white cube here.

00:41:19: obviously.

00:41:19: Of course We Have A Black Floor in White Walls but Yeah It's still a place In This Space That Has Already A Cognition Or Meaning.

00:41:31: So No I Lost

00:41:33: Track.

00:41:33: Yesterday was really Yes.

00:41:35: Today There Was This Moment That's beautiful to see, like the crowd that comes through the sheen.

00:41:44: And then those who were interested for friends of the artists in the film and our crew members... Who are people working cinema but coming to their work exhibited here.

00:42:04: I mean it was beautiful the interest of so many different instances.

00:42:10: Why is she an interested in that world?

00:42:16: That's just there, and then why do we come here to make it closer... This is interesting!

00:42:25: Do you think if I go back into the straight edge also You selected some songs.

00:42:36: What makes the film in the end, it's their work.

00:42:40: Did they choose also this song being connected to some generations and ideas?

00:42:45: Maybe you could shortly sum up what happens with these songs.

00:42:49: It kind of came through a combination really because we shared ideas that when we go into the garage We see this American idea freedom and liberty Through open roads gas-guzzling vehicles and customizing your car, bringing it across the plains.

00:43:10: This is also born in same period as punk really.

00:43:14: so this idea of freedom is kind of inherent to both these cultures.

00:43:19: there's a car garage then they're in the same space rehearsing or how do you call it?

00:43:27: Practicing and producing merch thinking and so on, two different movements coming from the same time frame with very different results.

00:43:41: And the parents kind of being a little bit unhappy about what they experienced in their youth as an eternal freedom and recognizing it now is kinda limited for their kids.

00:43:57: Looking back a little bit, you know having an nostalgic feeling for wanting to return to analogous processes and be more clear in the moment.

00:44:08: And being respectful with people around me... More positive thinking kind of.

00:44:13: It's kinda somewhere between those two things that seem to be right now stuck.

00:44:20: I mean because we have Trump in power on the United States.

00:44:30: He comes from the same... Petromasculism

00:44:33: is something being discussed.

00:44:35: I think I pronounced it wrong, but petro-masculine and this also one question in my final question.

00:44:41: then we open up when you see The Straight Edge Scene.

00:44:45: now there's the oldest straight edge scene still here presented by the twins more or less original Yeah, the original scene.

00:44:55: and then there's a new thing.

00:44:56: Do you think it has a connection for example to the pandemic that came up again?

00:45:03: And I think more important also this is one... The way they work, DIY making tapes And especially making tapes and not... I mean, they also have playlists probably on the digital file.

00:45:21: But still this... Not fetishism but focus on DIY scene getting back.

00:45:28: it's not only nostalgic i think.

00:45:29: or what do you thing is?

00:45:31: This my final question why the straight edge scene might be something very important now

00:45:36: today.

00:45:38: I don't think it's just straight edge, so but i think its a hardcore punk scene in general.

00:45:45: The zine is really important stickers T-shirts printed t shirts and saw last night the merch of the tapes and so on and forth.

00:45:53: hats.

00:45:54: It was kind of customizing.

00:45:59: you know we had that moment.

00:46:03: Again, there's something to do with that creativity... ...that you express outwardly and it is your own but at the same time you're projected outwards.

00:46:09: No?

00:46:10: It's like air-brushing in a car Like nowadays.

00:46:14: what have you got if not silver or black or white?

00:46:17: cars are all the same.

00:46:19: Where did we go wrong?

00:46:20: I mean In essence Now You don't have mixed tape That you give to a friend.

00:46:26: I can share a Spotify playlist With you.

00:46:30: Yes Not the same thing And its'nt yours.

00:46:33: It's never going to be, you know?

00:46:34: Because you're hiring it.

00:46:36: So at some point all of these things have been removed from our... From our

00:46:41: tea or

00:46:43: physicality and you hire them And even the production your own music is hired out to Spotify for example.

00:46:54: Who earned from this?

00:46:56: I don't think it comes... It's control.

00:46:59: maybe It's about autonomy in controls.

00:47:03: Even if you do something badly, at least your doing it yourself and not having just being given to... I think the skates.

00:47:12: The idea of talent was really nice.

00:47:16: we had beautiful conversations with them about what is a professional musician or not like being trained.

00:47:27: they are all studying working.

00:47:29: So this is also beautiful to understand.

00:47:31: I think as many of the artists we work with in our films, they are learning how to work in the arts... That's the case for Stas on the Coises, it's very much that topic like labor in art.

00:47:52: so i was really fascinated by them talking about how they love what I do.

00:48:00: And then, I think that what Cornelia got from Basti the idea of fun... The idea is not funny because it's not being serious right?

00:48:17: They take it super seriously like to have fun but in doing that as amateurs and loving them They were explaining to us, like Nick is the drummer of Blinded.

00:48:35: But he's a guitarist and vocalist also right?

00:48:39: And then Odo is singing in Blinded playing the bass.

00:48:43: so they are changing these roles all the time.

00:48:47: Nick taught Odo how to scream... It

00:48:50: happens!

00:48:52: He

00:48:52: unlocked his screams.

00:48:53: that was what he said.

00:48:54: Yes Nick unlocked my screams.

00:48:58: I loved it.

00:48:59: Yeah, it's beautiful that they're unlocking the screen.

00:49:03: But also this thing of like... They explained to us how they just wanted to have a band and had to do with themselves.

00:49:14: so Nick had to learn on how to play drums.

00:49:16: I mean he doesn't consider himself maybe as good at his guitar for example but its not point.

00:49:25: And i think you could talk about with us, Sebastian and Lucas about how this idea of being the best at... I mean that the idea of virtuosity is not there.

00:49:39: You know?

00:49:39: It has to do so many other layers And in a film for example you see them supporting The Bands Of The Region.

00:49:47: So it's spiral This another layer to DIY.

00:49:54: It's about supporting their own supporting

00:49:57: and protecting, I think.

00:50:00: And

00:50:00: making it sustainable?

00:50:02: It's about sustainability... We did understand that very well when we worked with the landless workers movement for Falada Terra also like

00:50:12: how

00:50:14: other strategies to survive outside.

00:50:18: this became part of work in the industry of music, or the industry cinema.

00:50:27: Or what it is to be an artist somehow there also?

00:50:31: And I think that's important again too point out as... The strategies for survival and being artists are there!

00:50:39: You see them but you always say they don't need us.

00:50:45: They do not want white cube art space because we're still there.

00:50:51: We have a. I mean, you focus them and bring to us to see or get involved in mediation.

00:51:01: Translation!